Re: Front end problems!
- To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
- Subject: [mg32139] Re: Front end problems!
- From: "A.K." <koru at coe.neu.edu>
- Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:47:02 -0500 (EST)
- Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
- Sender: owner-wri-mathgroup at wolfram.com
Dear Mr. Mason,
It was a great relief to read your experiences and experiments about the
front end. Somehow, to this day I was truly convinced that I was doing
something that shouldn't be done in a mathematica common sense. Therefore,
rewriting codes would be tormenting. Due to these errors I have lost days
thinking that there is an error in my calculations. At least from now on
when I get absurd outputs I'll be able to look for a front end error with a
tad more confidence. I'm also glad to hear that my mathematica coding
rituals weren't useless. I agree with the white space problems. They would
account for a number of my troubles. Hence, when I paste some piece of code
I try to handle them line by line with the minimum possible amount of white
space. It requires some patience but beats retyping. Also another odd
problem I had to battle last night was with font colors. I'm a rather messy
programmer, so color coding helps keep track of things easier. However, last
night mathematica would not recognize a bracket because it was blue. Well, I
turned blue before I could find the error. So for me mathematica coding is a
B&W occupation from now on.
Once again thank you very much for your kind and very helpful reply.
Despite all of its frustrating front end problems I still believe that it is
an amazing product. I'm sure we agree on that too.
Ps: It might be a good idea to create some sort of a mathematica front end
suspected (fuzzy) bugs and bad coding experiences knowledge base, since not
all problems are easily reportable to WRI.
"Alan Mason" <swt at austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a0h8bl$stt$1 at smc.vnet.net...
> "A.K." <koru at coe.neu.edu> wrote in message
news:a0enal$pge$1 at smc.vnet.net...
> > Hello all,
> > I have been using mathematica for years now. I intensely use versions 3
> > 4. While using mathematica I've encountered a mysterious
> problem -mysterious
> > to me at least- that's been recurring independent of the version.
> > Whenever I use the notebook, after a certain time and effort of
> > with correct intermediate results, I start getting peculiar outputs
> > following some more additional programming. At this point of course I
> > deleting any additional material to be able to go back to the closest
> > functioning state. Alas, I end up finding this state corrupted, and get
> > truly odd outputs.
> > This problem usually occurs after pasting some part of another
> > used program. A while back I was advised to open the notebook in
> > editor and delete or add a line or two. But this remedy doesn't work
> > Hence, I end up rewriting the code.
> > My major question is that, is there any other individual suffering from
> > type of phenomena or are these only my omens?
> > And also are there any patches, service packs or upgrades etc. that I'm
> > missing maybe? Such tools would be useful in either of the two versions
> > run on NT 4.0.
> > Best Regards.
> > Aybek Korugan
> Alas, the problems you report are not unique to you. Sometimes, the error
> is obvious -- you insert a comment into a Module, hit Shift-Enter, and get
> syntax error because the Frontend has lost track of the semicolon
> the comment (looks like a typical off-by-one error). But things are not
> always this clear. Sometimes after long complicated sessions, I've
> suspected Frontend errors (with white space and comments) may be
> the validity of my results, but it's hard to pin down the error because
> usually invisible on the screen. And even though I'm very careful about
> Mathematica hygiene -- about clearing variables, rules, etc. -- it's
> possible to exclude user error. For instance, just giving CircleDot, say,
> the Attribute Flat somewhere in the code and then forgetting to clear it
> cause a pattern involving CircleDot to suddenly fail to match later. The
> internal state of Mathematica gets very complicated and can be virtually
> impossible to understand; when this occurs, it's time to start a new
> As it happens, just a few days ago I was able to catch Mathematica
> red-handed, and I give the short notebook below. Here there can be no
> question of user error. Mathematica isn't handling white space properly.
> There may be other errors as well in longer notebooks. For AutoGenerated
> packages the situation is even worse than for notebooks; all too often, a
> package generated from a master notebook that runs perfectly will contain
> syntax errors which persist even after all comments have been stripped
> (great for the documentation, needless to say). There are also bugs and
> maddening inconsistencies in the keyboard-to-screen-to-file correspondence
> that any finished software program should have down cold. That such bugs
> should persist even at this late stage could be considered disgraceful and
> can be tolerated only because of Mathematica's unique virtues; WRI really
> needs to understand what's going on here and fix these problems once and
> In the following notebook, Out is wrong because of a whitespace bug.
> Since the two rules in In and In look alike on the screen, this is
> pernicious. Apparently, Mathematica is attempting to record additional
> formatting information in the notebook, a laudable effort. But it needs
> be done correctly, in a way that permits cutting and pasting without
> I believe that cutting and pasting, together with occasional mishandling
> comments, is the source of most if not all of these Frontend errors.
> Because of the Mathematica-centric approach that WRI has had to adopt with
> its notebooks, the parsing and analysis are considerably more difficult
> with a standard Windows text editor, but the difficulties are presumably
> \!\(test\ = \ \ D\_z\[SmallCircle]\((y\ D\_x)\)\)
> \!\(D\_z\[SmallCircle]\((y\ D\_x)\)\)
> \!\(\(\(\[IndentingNewLine]\)\(test\ //. \ \ \(D\_u\)\__\[SmallCircle]\ \
> \((c_\ \ D\_v_)\)\ \[RuleDelayed] \ \ c\ sc[D\_u, \
> D\_v]\ + \ \ \(\(CircleDot[D\_u, \ c]\) \(D\_v\)\(\
> \!\(D\_z\[SmallCircle]\((y\ D\_x)\)\)
> \!\(test\ //. \
> D\_u_\[SmallCircle]\((c_\ D\_v_)\)\ \[RuleDelayed] \
> c\ sc[D\_u, \ D\_v]\ + \ CircleDot[D\_u, \ c]\ D\_v\)
> \!\(y\ sc[D\_z, D\_x] + D\_z\[CircleDot]y\ D\_x\)
> PS. Actually, the rules don't look *exactly* the same in the notebook --
> the first is preceded by a newline, and there's an extra space before the
> first D, for example. However, if I delete this newline, and all the
> spaces, the result looks identical to In but it still doesn't work!
> looks like some effort has been made to permit better control over the
> formatting of notebooks, but the details aren't quite right. In any case,
> it's normal for users to consider rules that differ only by white space to
> be semantically identical.
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