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RE: RE: Re: Is it possible to access internal variables?

  • To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
  • Subject: [mg34761] RE: [mg34749] RE: [mg34709] Re: [mg34705] Is it possible to access internal variables?
  • From: "DrBob" <majort at cox-internet.com>
  • Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
  • Replyto: <drbob@bigfoot.com>
  • Sender: owner-wri-mathgroup at wolfram.com

If compound expressions are not evaluated in order, how can Modules or
Blocks work?  Aren't they compound expressions?  What makes g and h
different?

These are serious bugs.

I feel like we're walking on quicksand, now.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Wolf, Hartmut [mailto:Hartmut.Wolf at t-systems.com] 
To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
Subject: [mg34761] [mg34749] RE: [mg34709] Re: [mg34705] Is it possible to access
internal variables?


Hello Bob,

there is something mysterious with your proposal that disturbs me
somewhat.
See my records:

In[1]:= f[x_] := (x - 3)(x - 4)
 
In[2]:= g[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, v = Append[v, {x, t}]; t];
In[3]:= v = {}; FindMinimum[g[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]
>From In[3]:=
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
>From In[3]:=
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
Out[3]=
FindMinimum[g[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]

In[4]:= v
Out[4]=
{{2., 2.}, {2., 2.}, {2.03136, 1.9069}, {2.05074, 1.85035}, {2.18642, 
    1.4755}, {3., 0.}, {2., 2.}, {2., 2.}, {2.03136, 1.9069}, {2.05074, 
    1.85035}, {2.18642, 1.4755}, {3., 0.}}

In[5]:= g[x]
Out[5]= (-4 + x) (-3 + x)

In[6]:= ?g
Global`g
g[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, v = Append[v, {x, t}]; t]

Apart from the fact that FindMinimum is restarted and that the first
value
appears twice, this seems to be what you intended. It doesn't help Arny
though, as the minimum value -- what he supposed to be that x occuring
in
the error message -- is not included in that list v.

But there seems to be something special with g, if I try with h it
doesn't
work:
 
In[7]:= h[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, Append[v, {x, t}]; t];
In[8]:= v = {}; FindMinimum[h[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]
>From In[8]:=
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
>From In[8]:=
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
Out[8]=
FindMinimum[h[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]

In[9]:= v     (* v is empty *)
Out[9]= {}       

In[10]:= h[x]
Out[10]= (-4 + x) (-3 + x)

In[11]:= ?h
Global`h
h[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, Append[v, {x, t}]; t]


Now observe:

In[12]:= FindMinimum[Print[x]; f[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]
>From In[12]:= x
>From In[12]:= 2.
>From In[12]:= 2.03136
>From In[12]:= 2.05074
>From In[12]:= 2.18642
>From In[12]:= 3.
>From In[12]:= FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point
\!\({3.5000000000000018`}\) which is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
Out[12]= FindMinimum[Print[x]; f[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]

The Argument of FindMinimum is evaluated first with symbolic x (to get
at
the derivative I suppose), later, at the second call, it and such also t
=
(-4 + x) (-3 + x) get a numeric value, and therefore the values are
introduced into v when appending {x,t}, so the start value gets doubled.


The restart of the minimization seems to be triggered by the compound
expression v = {}; FindMinimum[...] in the main loop (not within Find
Minimum)
 
In[19]:= h5[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, Print[x]; t];

In[20]:= v = {}; FindMinimum[h5[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]
>From In[20]:= x
>From In[20]:= 2.
>From In[20]:= 2.03136
>From In[20]:= 2.05074
>From In[20]:= 2.18642
>From In[20]:= 3.
>From In[20]:= 
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
>From In[20]:= x
>From In[20]:= 2.
>From In[20]:= 2.03136
>From In[20]:= 2.05074
>From In[20]:= 2.18642
>From In[20]:= 3.
>From In[20]:=
FindMinimum::"regex": "Reached the point \!\({3.5000000000000018`}\)
which
is \
outside the region \!\({\({1.`, 3.`}\)}\)."
Out[20]= FindMinimum[h5[x], {x, 2, 1, 3}]

Any expression e.g. (3; FindMinimum[...]) does that too; conversely if
you
initialize v in an extra line, there will be no restart. This may have
something to do with peculiarities of compound expression, sometimes
starting a re-evaluation. (This had been reported by Allan Hayes some
years
ago.) See:

In[65]:= x = 5;

In[66]:= x =.; Print[x]; {x, x = 3, x}
>From In[66]:= x
Out[66]= {3, 3, 3}

In[67]:= x =.
In[68]:= {x, x = 3, x}
Out[68]= {x, 3, 3}

Anyways, as shown above, Arny's desire to get at 'internal values' of
FindMinimum seems to be hopeless. My advice would be to check for the
error
message and then possibly increase the search range (by a certain
tolerance)
and restart (only a finite number of times).

--
Hartmut


> -----Original Message-----
> From: BobHanlon at aol.com [mailto:BobHanlon at aol.com]
To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 7:15 AM
> Subject: [mg34761] [mg34749] [mg34709] Re: [mg34705] Is it possible to access
internal
> variables?
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/1/02 6:18:58 AM, 
> someone at somewhere.sometime writes:
> 
> >I am minimizing a function which only has real values 
> >between 1 and -1, 
> most
> >of the time... occasionally its range is different and 
> unknown, (but anyway
> >not far from 1 and -1).  I could write a routine using Check 
> to catch errors
> >and then expand the range over which FindMinimum is allowed 
> to search,
> >but
> >since FindMinimum seems to be getting the appropriate values 
> anyway - it
> >tells me the values in its error message -  I was wondering 
> if there weren't
> >some way to get at those values and use them without 
> bothering to write
> >said routine.  I was thinking of analysing 'MessageList' or 
> '$MessageList',
> >but was thinking there might be some easier way.
> >
> >Aren't variables within packages accessible via their long 
> names, e.g.
> >`package`private`variablename or something like that?  Does 
> anyone have
> >any suggestions?
> >
> 
> f[x_] := (x-3)(x-4);
> 
> g[x_] := Module[{t = f[x]}, v=Append[v, {x,t}]; t];
> 
> g is the same function as f except that calls to g are recorded in v
> 
> v={}; FindMinimum[g[x], {x, 2}]
> 
> {-0.25, {x -> 3.5}}
> 
> FindMinimum called g at the following values of x:
> 
> v[[All,1]]
> 
> {2., 2., 2.0313609375, 2.0507430627940644,
>  
>   2.1864179398525154, 3.136142079261673, 3.500000000000001,
>  
>   3.838316500294484, 3.5, 3.3180710396308366,
>  
>   3.4999904004703097, 3.5, 3.499999994722301}
> 
> 
> Bob Hanlon
> Chantilly, VA  USA
> 





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