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Re: Re: MathGroup /: Descriptive headings

• To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
• Subject: [mg52012] Re: [mg51971] Re: MathGroup /: Descriptive headings
• From: Clifford Martin <camartin at snet.net>
• Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 01:03:31 -0500 (EST)
• Sender: owner-wri-mathgroup at wolfram.com

Steve,

I read the list every day and have for a few years. I
post occasionly but find the list very useful and this
group one of my most valuable resources in my
business. I think you do a great job.  The only
suggestion that I have is, 'Is there some way to make
your life easier'? Otherwise don't fix what isn't
broken! Thanks for a great service.

Cliff Martin
--- "Steven M. Christensen" <steve at smc.vnet.net>
wrote:

> 
> See my comments within the message below.
> 
> Steve Christensen
> 
> 
> > 
> > In article <cmfd5u$7ta$1 at smc.vnet.net>,
> >  "Steven M. Christensen" <steve at smc.vnet.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > I want to take the opportunity to reply to
> Paul's suggestion in
> > > as much detail as possible.
> > > 
> > > I am sorry I was not at the event at the Wolfram
> Technology
> > > Conference when this was discussed.
> > > 
> > > First, here are the steps I take each day to
> moderate this group.
> > > Figuring out where in these steps to put in
> categorization would need
> > > to fit into this.   
> > > 
> > > 1.  I get perhaps 2500-3000 emails a day, every
> day.  Of these, perhaps
> > >     500 are not spam.  Because the Mathgroup
> addresses are easily found
> > >     by spammers, there is no way around getting
> a lot of spam.
> > 
> > Do you mean that the spammers are forging email
> addresses of MathGroup 
> > participants and using these to post messages to
> MathGroup 
> > (mathgroup at wolfram.com)? I can see how that would
> make things more difficult
> > to filter. 
> 
> 
> Yes, this happens all the time.   Spam comes to
> mathgroup via mailing
> list messages, newsgroup posts, spammers who have
> just found addresses
> in the newsgroups and archives.
> 
> 
> > 
> > If I understand you correctly, requiring
> individuals to "register" with 
> > you, possibly listing multiple email addresses,
> and bouncing email that 
> > is not from registered participants, with a
> message telling them how to 
> > register, would not work.
> 
> 
> No this would not work.  I even get spam from
> wolfram.com addresses
> even though I know it did not come from there.  I
> sometimes get
> spam from myself!
> 
> 
> > 
> > Because I usually post from a news reader, my
> messages have the 
> > following field:
> > 
> >  Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica
> > 
> > Could this be used as a filter (or do spammers
> forge this as well)?
> 
> 
> Spammers forge every element of posts.
> 
> 
> > 
> > [As an aside, a solution to SPAM needs to be
> found. To me, it should 
> > cost money, only of the order of a couple of
> cents, to send any email 
> > message. You would need to purchase a valid
> one-off "e-stamp", using 
> > some form of encryption technology, from some site
> (I'm suprised that 
> > the automatic billing sites have not already done
> this). Then only valid 
> > e-stamps would be routed though the network. There
> are, of course, many 
> > issues with this proposal ...]
> > 
> > >     Further, because MathGroup users often,
> unfortunately, 
> > >     send html email or other attachments, maybe
> 10-20 of their mails get
> > >     filtered by my, fairly sophisticated but not
> perfect, spam filters into
> > >     my spam folder.
> > 
> > To me, one of the major limitations of MathGroup
> is that we cannot 
> > attach Notebooks (without including them in the
> body of the message).
> 
> 
> 
> Attaching notebooks causes numerous problems.
> 
> 1.  Notebooks as attachments are very often rejected
> by spam filters
>     either at ISP's, moderation level, or end users.
> 
> 2.  Can a windows user really trust that a notebook
> attachment is not
>     a virus or worm?   If I were using a Windows
> machine and saw an
>     attachment, I would not open it.
> 
> 3.  Many notebooks are very long and some mail
> systems will not be able
>     to handle them.  Rules about attached notebooks
> would have
>     to be devised.  Not a simple matter given that I
> get so many
>     posts that can't follow even simpler rules.
> 
> It is far simpler to have someone put their notebook
> on a server somewhere
> where it can be downloaded and then include a link
> within the post.
> 
> 
> >  
> > > 2.  Of the 500 good emails that get past my spam
> filters, I then have to
> > >     filter out those mails that are for
> Mathgroup.   Then, I have to
> > >     go through the spam folder to find any
> MathGroup posts that might be
> > >     there.  So,there are usually about 70 emails
> relevant to MathGroup.
> > >     Some, maybe 10 do not follow the rules -
> flames, licensing questions,
> > >     discussions of other systems, really trivial
> items, totally 
> > >     non-Mathematica
> > >     related.  In the end, there are 30-60 emails
> to read in more detail.
> > 
> > Actually, if the Subject line included question
> categories as is being 
> > proposed, couldn't you use this as the primary
> filter (or again, do 
> > spammers forge this as well)? 
> 
> 
> Again, spammers will grab email addresses, Subject
> lines, even
> content sometimes.  Most of that comes to me where I
> filter it.
> But I have had some reports that people get email
> from mathgroup
> and I did not send.
> 
> 
> >  
> > > 3.  Once I decide that the posts are OK, I run
> them through a number of
> > >     UNIX scripts and do some more editing to
> take out unneeded mail headers
> > >     etc.
> > > 
> > > 4.  Then the mails are run through scripts that
> send them to the
> > >     newsgroup and the mailing list.  One of the
> scripts adds the
> > >      numbers to the Subject line of the mail
> that goes to
> > >     the mailing list.  Note that the [  ] are
> really needed.  
> > 
> > As I read MathGroup in a newsreader or sometimes
> via Google at
> > 
> > 
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica
> > 
> > I do not see the numbers or the []. Google seems
> to handle threading 
> > better than my newsreader.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> The [mg ... ] numbers only go out to the mailing
> list to help with
> filtering.  They will not be seen in the newsgroup
> or on google.
> 
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