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Re: RE: Re: Re: Limit of an expression?

  • To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
  • Subject: [mg67713] Re: [mg67690] RE: [mg67608] Re: [mg67557] Re: Limit of an expression?
  • From: Andrzej Kozlowski <akoz at mimuw.edu.pl>
  • Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 04:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
  • References: <200607040559.BAA00649@smc.vnet.net>
  • Sender: owner-wri-mathgroup at wolfram.com

David,

It only now dawned on me that you wrote earlier you were using  
Windows 98. That of course, changes the whole picture: I would be  
very surprised if what you described below still works like this on  
more recent versions of Windows. I hope someone will let us know.

Andrzej Kozlowski

PS. It somehow did not occur to me that there are still people using  
Windows 98, partly because I personally do not know anyone still  
using Mac OS 9, and partly because I witnessed already over two years  
ago computers being given away free at a Japanese university with  
Windows 2000 pre-installed. I even thought of taking one myself but  
gave up the idea because I did not have any space for it. I still  
keep my original Mac Plus of course ;-)




On 4 Jul 2006, at 14:59, David Park wrote:

> This is what I get if I do a straight copy and paste on the  
> following expression with Greek letters and the weak inequality sign.
>
> 2\[Alpha] + 3\[Pi] <= 3
>
> It can be copied and pasted (I paste it back as Plain Text using  
> Paste As to get the correct font size - but I think that is a  
> result of some of my Windows settings.) The letters appear as  
> proper Greek letters in the notebook.
>
> The real problem is when there is a boxed expression. Then I  
> convert it to InputForm to give, for example, the following.
>
> Integrate[E^x, x]
>
> This will paste back in as is, that is as InputForm, but it can be  
> converted to StandardForm with the boxed structures simply by  
> placing the cursor in the cell and typing Shift-Ctrl-N.
>
> I'll admit that the longer expressions for Greek letters is not  
> quite as nice in a posting but it can all be copied and pasted and  
> works properly in notebooks for everyone.
>
> David Park
> djmp at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~djmp/
>
> From: Andrzej Kozlowski [mailto:akoz at mimuw.edu.pl]
To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
> To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
>
> David,
>
> InputForm (and Copy As Text) have no effect at all on Greek symbols,
> at least on Mac OS X with Apple Mail (however, I don't think the e-
> mail client could have anything to do with this). The other thing
> that sometimes causes problems is the weak inequality sign: <=  and
> in this case converting to InputForm does help. I sometimes forget to
> do this because after pasting the TraditinalForm of weak inequality
> into Mail it continues to look fine. However, in the case of Greek
> symbols there is no other choice that I know of but replacing them by
> Latin letters. I believe that doing this is up to the original poster
> of a message and not up to people responding to it.
>
>
> Andrzej Kozlowski
>
>
> On 4 Jul 2006, at 01:37, David Park wrote:
>
>> Andrzej,
>>
>> I'm running on Windows98 with Microsoft Outlook 2000 Version
>> 9.0.0.2711. I cannot afford to update soon.
>>
>> My email is set to Unicode UTF-8 encoding for both sending and
>> receiving.
>>
>> I cannot read or use much of the code you paste into postings.
>>
>> As for me, I have a palette on my desktop that will copy and
>> convert Mathematica code to InputForm, which I then paste into my
>> postings. I'm under the impression that everybody can read them and
>> copy and paste them into notebooks.
>>
>> David Park
>> djmp at earthlink.net
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~djmp/
>>
>>
>> From: Andrzej Kozlowski [mailto:akoz at mimuw.edu.pl]
To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
> To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
>>
>>
>> On 3 Jul 2006, at 06:32, Andrzej Kozlowski wrote:
>>
>>> If you past into mail program a Greek letter form Mathematica or
>>> the sign â?¤  the entire message will be posted as Unicode. These
>>> messages when they return to me sometimes appear illegible (because
>>> of the way the mail server is set up) but one mouse move to the
>>> TextEncoding menu makes them legible. I do not think it is to much
>>> to exact that Mathgroup users should learn to use their e-mail
>>> programs.
>>
>>
>> I think I had better explain it more carefully. The MathGroup server
>> is, in fact, set up correctly; sorry for claiming otherwise. For
>> example, the message I posted containing the text below:
>>
>> (Limit[(1 - E^((-
>> µ)*t*(s - 1 - λ/µ)))/
>>        (s - 1 - λ/µ),
>>       t -> Infinity,
>>       Assumptions ->
>>        {µ > 0 && #1[s,
>>           1 + λ/µ]}] & ) /@
>>     {Greater, Equal, Less}
>>
>> {-(µ/(λ - s*µ + µ)),
>>     0, Infinity}
>>
>> was copied (as InputForm) from a Mathematica notebook and posted with
>> Apple's Mail. Because of the presence of Greek characters it was sent
>> automatically (I did not even think about it) as Unicode. When I
>> received it back from the MathGroup mail server it was perfectly
>> legible, since Mail recognized it as Unicode automatically (that
>> means the server did not insert any false encoding information as
>> some baldy set up mail servers are want to do).  However, when I
>> received a message from David, containing a quote from my original
>> message, the above text was not legible, since the header of David's
>> message contained the information
>>
>> Content-Type: 	text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> which prevents the text being automatically recognized as Unicode by
>> Mail. However, in such a case selecting the message and performing a
>> simple move with the pointer to the item Text Encoding in Mail's
>> Message menu and choosing Unicode (UTF-8) makes everything appear
>> legible again. After that it can be pasted into Mathematica without
>> any further problems.
>> Here I am tempted to add a personal observation.  From my past
>> experience on several mailing lists I have noticed that people who
>> complain about similar problems are almost always Windows users. I am
>> not saying that Windows mail programs are inferior to Mac ones, in
>> fact I am quite sure that they can do all the same things and perhaps
>> even more. However,  it seems to me that it would be almost
>> impossible  for an Apple Mail user to fail to notice the Text
>> Encoding menu and at least to wonder what it might be for. I suspect
>> that users of Microsoft programs are so accustomed to having a large
>> number of menus and buttons and so on whose purpose they do not
>> understand they never even ask such questions.
>>
>> Andrzej Kozlowski
>> Tokyo, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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