Re: question 1

*To*: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net*Subject*: [mg75875] Re: [mg75810] question 1*From*: Andrzej Kozlowski <akoz at mimuw.edu.pl>*Date*: Sat, 12 May 2007 03:12:21 -0400 (EDT)*References*: <200705110924.FAA05900@smc.vnet.net> <A52D6750-3017-4EF6-82F7-DFE4CB83812F@mimuw.edu.pl> <CB1CAE8E-3B30-4645-9279-14C936512446@mimuw.edu.pl> <E3CE072F-72C3-4B5C-B24D-DCFB113AA3B9@mimuw.edu.pl>

On 12 May 2007, at 11:18, Andrzej Kozlowski wrote: > > On 12 May 2007, at 10:37, Andrzej Kozlowski wrote: > >> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate >> (tm) Pro* >> >> On 12 May 2007, at 10:23, Andrzej Kozlowski wrote: >> >>> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate >>> (tm) Pro* >>> On 11 May 2007, at 18:24, dimitris wrote: >>> >>>> I have >>>> >>>> In[5]:= >>>> f = (o - 8)^4 - (e + 4)^8 >>>> >>>> Out[5]= >>>> -(4 + e)^8 + (-8 + o)^4 >>>> >>>> In[6]:= >>>> ff = Expand[f] >>>> >>>> Out[6]= >>>> -61440 - 131072*e - 114688*e^2 - 57344*e^3 - 17920*e^4 - 3584*e^5 - >>>> 448*e^6 - 32*e^7 - e^8 - 2048*o + 384*o^2 - 32*o^3 + o^4 >>>> >>>> Is it possible to simplify ff to f again? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I don't think Mathematica can do it automatically, because the >>> most obvious way of carrying out this simplification relies on >>> transformations of the kind that that Simplify or FullSimplify >>> never use (such as adding and simultaneously subtracting some >>> number, then rearranging the whole expression and factoring parts >>> of it). These kind of transformations could be implemented but >>> they would work in only a few cases, and would considerably >>> increase the time complexity of simplifying. Here is an example >>> of another transformation that will work in this and some >>> similar cases: >>> >>> transf[f_, {e_, o_}] := >>> With[{a = Integrate[D[f, e], e], b = Integrate[D[f, o], o]}, >>> Simplify[a] + Simplify[b] + Simplify[(f - (a + b))]] >>> >>> (one can easily implment a version with more than two variables). >>> >>> This works in your case: >>> >>> ff = Expand[(o - 8)^4 - (e + 4)^8]; >>> >>> transf[ff, {e, o}] >>> (o - 8)^4 - (e + 4)^8 >>> >>> and in quite many cases like yours : >>> >>> gg = Expand[(a + 3)^5 + (x - 7)^6]; >>> >>> transf[gg, {a, x}] >>> (x - 7)^6 + (a + 3)^5 >>> >>> but not in all >>> >>> hh = Expand[(x - 5)^4 + (y - 3)^3]; >>> >>> transf[hh, {x, y}] >>> (x - 5)^4 + y*((y - 9)*y + 27) - 27 >>> >>> Even this, however, is better than the answer FullSimplify gives: >>> >>> FullSimplify[hh] >>> >>> (x - 10)*x*((x - 10)*x + 50) + y*((y - 9)*y + 27) + 598 >>> >>> Unfortunately transf also has very high complexity (it uses >>> Integrate) and is unlikely to be useful in cases other than sums >>> of polynomials in different variables (without "cross terms") so >>> I doubt that it would be worth implementing some version of it in >>> FullSimplify. >>> >>> >>> Andrzej Kozlowski >>> >> >> I forgot that Integrate already maks use of Simplify, so >> (probably) the folowing version of transf will work just as well >> and faster: >> >> transf[f_, {e_, o_}] := >> With[{a = Integrate[D[f, e], e], b = Integrate[D[f, o], o]}, >> a + b + Simplify[(f - (a + b))]] >> >> Andrzej Kozlowski > > Sorry, that last remark just not true. Cleary Integrate uses > Simplify before integration but does not Simplify its output > (obviously to save time) so including Simplify does make a > difference. Note also the following works much better, but is,, of > course, much more tiem consuming: > > > transf[f_, {e_, o_}] := > With[{a = Integrate[D[f, e], e], b = Integrate[D[f, o], o]}, > FullSimplify[Simplify[a] + Simplify[b] + Simplify[(f - (a + b))], > ExcludedForms -> {(x + c_)^n_, (y + d_)^m_}]] > > > This will deal with many cases that would not work before: > > hh = Expand[(x - 5)^4 + (y - 3)^3]; > > transf[hh, {x, y}] > (x - 5)^4 + (y - 3)^3 > > p = Expand[(x - 2)^4 + (y + 1)^2]; > > transf[p, {x, y}] > (x - 2)^4 + (y + 1)^2 > > but at least one power has to be higher than 3. This this will work > > q = Expand[(x - 2)^4 + (y + 1)^3]; > transf[q, {x, y}] > (x - 2)^4 + (y + 1)^3 > > but this will not (all powers are <=3) > > q = Expand[(x - 2)^3 + (y + 1)^3]; > > transf[q, {x, y}] > > x*((x - 6)*x + 12) + y*(y*(y + 3) + 3) - 7 > > Andrzej Kozlowski > > > Sorry, another correction; it should have been (of course) > transf[f_, {e_, o_}] := > With[{a = Integrate[D[f, e], e], b = Integrate[D[f, o], o]}, > FullSimplify[Simplify[a] + Simplify[b] + Simplify[(f - (a + b))], > ExcludedForms -> {(e + c_)^n_, (o + d_)^m_}]] Andrzej Kozlowski

**References**:**question 1***From:*dimitris <dimmechan@yahoo.com>

**Re: question 1**

**drawing with mathematica**

**Re: question 1**

**Re: Re: question 1**