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Re: Re: Re: Adding markers on the surface of a Plot3D?

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  • Subject: [mg89469] Re: [mg89439] Re: [mg89427] Re: Adding markers on the surface of a Plot3D?
  • From: "peter lindsay" <plindsay at>
  • Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
  • References: <g2b4o8$nm2$> <>

am I the only one here who finds the tone of some of these messages
unnecessarily combative ?

Peter Lindsay

2008/6/9 Andrzej Kozlowski <akoz at>:
> I really feel compelled to add one more thing. I almost never use
> Microsoft Office, but the reason is not any hostility towards
> Microsoft (the only difference between Microsoft and its rivals that I
> can see is that the former already is where the latter would like to
> be) but simply that I do not have much use for the sort of stuff it
> does. But using Microsoft Office as an exmaple of commercial failure
> that is supposedly threating WRI sounds like a pretty good joke. With
> failure like that who needs success?
> Andrzej Kozlowski
> On 9 Jun 2008, at 16:49, Andrzej Kozlowski wrote:
>> You seem to be unable to grasp two fundamental facts.
>> 1. Mathematica is "at heart" a programming language. "Fully
>> integrated" in this context means "fully programmable by means of
>> the Mathematica programming language". Although it is clear that you
>> do not care about that (and I am not sure you really understand what
>> it means) but it is important to those who develop various
>> Mathematica applications and, indirectly, to all those who use them.
>> 2. The business model you are suggesting for Mathematica has already
>> been tried. I am not allowed to list names of "competitive programs"
>> here, but if I were I could produce quite a long list  systems that
>> have tried to follow exactly the approach you consider idea and as a
>> result their development has now been abandoned or they are
>> available as freeware and  developed by volunteers. You could even
>> try one of them yourself.
>> One of the reasons why Mathematica has not so far ended up in the
>> same situation is that it has chosen a completely different model,
>> which happens to appeal to much more important customers than
>> retired university professors.
>> Andrzej Kozlowski
>> On 9 Jun 2008, at 15:29, AES wrote:
>>> In article <g2fuii$2md$1 at>,
>>> Andrzej Kozlowski <akoz at> wrote:
>>>> This is, of course, a
>>>> perfect illustration of the concept of "integration" as in "the
>>>> world's only fully integrated technical computing system" ....
>>> Some day maybe we can have some further debate on whether the
>>> grandiose concept of a "fully integrated xxxxxxx system" is or is not
>>> always a good thing.  As a start:
>>> *  Microsoft Office, I suppose, could be called a "fully integrated
>>> <something> system" -- and many people thoroughly dislike it for just
>>> that reason, much preferring a set of smaller, leaner, more
>>> modular, set
>>> of independent tools, interacting using internationally standardized
>>> formats, in which, if a better tool for one part of the task comes
>>> along, they can switch to it ,
>>> *  Some people would in fact call this latter process "innovation".
>>> Developers of big "fully integrated xxxxxxx systems" tend to try to
>>> suppress innovation that they don't control, suppress other
>>> approaches
>>> that aren't part of their system, and also tend to try to suppress
>>> standards and formats that let people go around them.  (MS, of
>>> course,
>>> has never done anything like this . . . )
>>> *  "Fully integrated xxxxxxx systems" in any area of life tend to get
>>> bloated and unwieldy and increasingly difficult to get one's arms
>>> around; the documentation tends to get immense and unreadable and
>>> increasingly difficult to learn; the interface necessarily becomes
>>> increasingly complex and hard to learn; there tend to be increasing
>>> unwanted or unexpected side effects between different parts and
>>> functions of the system, leading to an increase in unpleasant
>>> surprises
>>> that can be increasingly difficult to track down.  (Sound like some
>>> of
>>> the posts that appear on this newsgroup?)
>>> I guess I'm at base a modular type -- I can appreciate and handle,
>>> just
>>> barely, Mathematica at its present size.  I don't believe that
>>> viewing
>>> Mathematica as "the world's only fully integrated technical computing
>>> (and technical communication?) system" is a good, or desirable, or
>>> for
>>> that matter even achievable outcome, and the warning bells resulting
>>> from pushing toward this goal -- if that's what it is -- are already
>>> ringing loudly.

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