Re: More /.{I->-1} craziness

*To*: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net*Subject*: [mg106160] Re: More /.{I->-1} craziness*From*: Leonid Shifrin <lshifr at gmail.com>*Date*: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:42:10 -0500 (EST)*References*: <200912300915.EAA17299@smc.vnet.net> <hhhmn8$o9t$1@smc.vnet.net>

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:51 PM, DrMajorBob <btreat1 at austin.rr.com> wrote: > I think the way we enter and understand InputForm is syntax; FullForm is > the way they're stored internally. > > So Mathematica's pattern matching isn't what I'd call syntactical... unless > you mean "syntactical on a hidden (though discoverable) level". > Yes Bobby, That's exactly what I mean. When I talk about syntax, I mean FullForm, not InputForm. Perhaps a more precise way of saying it would be to say that pattern-matching is based on exact symbolic form (or structure) of the expression (tree), without any "meaning" attached to any of its parts - this is what I mean by syntax-based. Regards, Leonid > Bobby > > > On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 04:06:32 -0600, Leonid Shifrin <lshifr at gmail.com> > wrote: > > Regarding this issue, I think I entirely agree with what David Bailey and >> other people said: I don't consider replacement rules as a mathematical >> tool >> for end users, but rather as an inner layer of Mathematica, which is also >> exposed for flexibility / convenience and intended primarily to be used by >> the more advanced users. In this way, they can implement some missing >> functionality themselves at their own risk without the need to wait for a >> new Mathematica release. It is stated in the documentation that rule >> substitution is purely syntax-based, and therefore not guaranteed to >> always >> make sense. >> >> I don't see how this by itself makes the design inconsistent: either you >> are >> the end-user without advanced Mathematica skills and then you have to >> stick >> to the built-in commands like Conjugate designed specifically to deal with >> the problem (complex conjugation here), or you use the lower-level tools >> like replacement rules but then you are on your own - the system will >> blindly do the replacements according to the syntax of your rules, and it >> is >> then your responsibility to use them correctly. What I would agree with is >> that the documentation could have made this borderline more clear-cut. But >> I >> don't think that this is a problem on the level of design. >> >> Regards, >> Leonid >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Richard Fateman <fateman at cs.berkeley.edu >> >wrote: >> >> Leonid Shifrin wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> > >>> > I think that there are not many more objects in Mathematica which are >>> as >>> > tricky as <I> or Infinity in terms of pattern-matching. >>> >>> >>> I agree. >>> That's why it can be fixed. >>> >>> Here's a beginning of a short list for the "we're not just talking >>> syntactic replacement-- version of substitution": >>> >>> If the user says -i --> i, then do Complex[a_,-b_] -> Complex[a,b]. >>> If the user says x^2 --> y, then do x^(-2)-> 1/y also. >>> >>> I assume this list can be enlarged somewhat, and could even be left >>> open-ended by user option of some sort. [e.g. should x^2--> y also >>> change x^3 to x*y? or to y^(3/2) or ....] >>> >>> .... >>> >>> > It would perhaps be nice if such >>> > cases were more systematically documented, but they have nothing to do >>> with >>> > bugs, >>> >>> You are right if you mean "bug in Mathematica implementation of >>> intended design" (this is not such a bug). >>> >>> But there is another concept: >>> "bug in Mathematica design, contrary to reasonable mathematical >>> expectation" >>> (this IS such a bug). >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > DrMajorBob at yahoo.com >

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**Re: More /.{I->-1} craziness**

**Re: More /.{I->-1} craziness**