Re: Re: Should I be using Mathematica at all?
- To: mathgroup at smc.vnet.net
- Subject: [mg98720] Re: [mg98685] Re: Should I be using Mathematica at all?
- From: peter <plindsay.0 at gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:26:11 -0400 (EDT)
- References: <email@example.com> <200904141015.GAA07628@smc.vnet.net>
hello Joseph, I see what you mean, your crucial words are "in practice". I use a mac and linux and have no such problems. With Windows, especially if you are using visual studio or something [ ? ], I agree it is a nightmare to separate out the real C++ from the Microsoft obfuscation. 2009/4/16 Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn at comcast.net> > In article <gs47oa$7s7$1 at smc.vnet.net>, peter <plindsay.0 at gmail.com> > wrote: > > > respectfully, I don't think this is quite right although I see what > > you are getting at. C++ is platform independent and free, unless you > > chose to tie yourself in to particular proprietary Libraries or IDEs. > > C++ in practice is not platform independent at all, unless one goes to > considerable effort to ensure independence. You put your finger right > on it when you mentioned "particular proprietary Libraries or IDEs". > > On Windows in particular, it can be very difficult to avoid things like > ActiveX controls from creeping in and defeating portability and platform > independence. And forcing one onto the upgrade treadmill. > > C, being at least ten times simpler, has far less of this problem, but > even so vigilance is required. > > Joe Gwinn > > > > 2009/4/14 Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn at comcast.net>: > > > In article <gruppj$nk$1 at smc.vnet.net>, > > > "Paul Ellsmore" <paul.ellsmore at nanion.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > >> Hello again, > > >> > > >> I have had several questions answered by this group, for which I am > very > > >> grateful. Now I have a more general topic, which I know will not have > > >> single, clear answers. I just would like to hear your opinions. > > >> > > >> I have some (fairly complicated) legacy Mathematica v5 software which > we > > >> currently use in-house. Our intention is to turn this software into a > > >> saleable product. At the moment, I am contemplating upgrading to V7, > wri= > > ting > > >> a GUI for our code (which has no compatibility issues with V7) and > > >> distributing it using PlayerPro. > > > > > > What is the nature of this product? > > > > > > > > >> To protect our IP, I will be using Encode to make it impossible for it > t= > > o be > > >> reverse engineered. Does anyone know how secure this will actually be? > I= > > s it > > >> more or less secure than a compiled C++ program would be, for > instance? = > > Are > > >> there any particular issues I should be aware of? > > >> > > >> It turns out that there are some serious problems for us using > PlayerPro > > >> (apart from the price!) which are making us reconsider using > Mathematica= > > at > > >> all. Top of the list is the inability of Wolfram to offer a trial > licens= > > e > > >> for PlayerPro. What this would mean is that we would be losing 100 or > so > > >> every time someone ordered a trial version but did not subsequently > buy = > > the > > >> package, because there is no way for us to get our PlayerPro license > bac= > > k. > > >> This is not viable. The best Wolfram can offer is to give our > prospectiv= > > e > > >> client a trial version of the full Mathematica package (say for 15 > days)= > > . As > > >> a workaround, this is very clunky, when I requested my trial of V7 > it= > > took > > >> 4 days to get the license. I think that, these days, people expect to > go= > > to > > >> a website, download a trial version and start working with it > immediatel= > > y. > > >> > > >> So, I am considering our options, in particular open source code, such > a= > > s > > >> C++, and I'd be interested in your opinions about this. Our V5 code > does= > > n't > > >> involve any exotic maths, but it makes extensive use of SetDelayed, > and > > >> these definitions are frequently nested within long and complicated Do > > >> loops. Speed is crucial to our application, so is there any, in > principl= > > e, > > >> reason why Mathematica might be able to do things significantly faster > t= > > han > > >> a compiled C++ program (assuming the C++ code is written by someone > who > > >> knows what they are doing)? Is there a better language than C++, > bearing= > > in > > >> mind the need to compile (or encode in some way) and distribute the > > >> resulting code? I know there used to be a compiler for Mathematica > once = > > upon > > >> a time, is there any easy way to get from mathematica code to a > compilab= > > le > > >> program. I should stress that we are very happy with Mathematica in > term= > > s of > > >> developing our application, it's just generating anything that we > could = > > sell > > >> that is problematical. > > >> > > >> I have some experience of writing VB, Visual C and similar > applications,= > > but > > >> these never had a large graphical content. Our code will require a lot > o= > > f > > >> plotting of data (2D only, but lots of curves which need to be > interacti= > > ve > > >> in some sense). Mathematica can do everything we want in this respect, > b= > > ut I > > >> am less sure about the open source code. I am sure there are add-on > > >> packages, but never having used them I don't know whether they can > match > > >> Mathematica's built in abilities, any comments? > > > > > > The big issue with translation to C++ or any other language to to avoid > > > lock-in to either Windows or to the compiler make and model. If > lock-i= > > n > > > is permitted, especially to Windows, every time MS burps you will be > > > forced to play catch-up. While C++ is in theory standardized, there > ar= > > e > > > significant differences in what C++ compilers will accept. Use of the > = > > C > > > subset of C++ is usually far less stressful, and allows for graceful > > > transition should the compiler vendor go to find his guru. > > > > > > Platform independence also helps when negotiating with platform and > > > compiler vendors. > > > > > > To avoid lock-in, one must do all testing on at least two platform > kinds > > > using compilers from at least two makers. It isn't enough to make > > > platform independence a goal, one must directly test for independence, > > > as its very easy for dependencies to creep in unnoticed. > > > > > > Choice of platforms: If one covers Windows, MacOS, and UNIX/Linux, one > > > has covered 99%. Going from one platform to two is the big step. > > > Adding the third isn't that much harder to achieve, although testing is > > > still an expense. > > > > > > Joe Gwinn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Lindsay > > -- Peter Lindsay
- Re: Should I be using Mathematica at all?
- From: Joseph Gwinn <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Re: Should I be using Mathematica at all?